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In a wide-ranging interview on the podcast Wales, Africa and the World, Carwyn Jones, the former First Minister of Wales from 2009 to 2018, has said:
The interview covered topics from the origins of the Wales and Africa Programme, the rise of the far-right, the work and value for money of the programme, and his hopes for the future of the sector.
On the importance of the programme and why it should be maintained at a time when budgets are squeezed and there are many domestic priorities taking focus in Wales he said:
“Even if you took away all that money and put it into health and education, I mean, the effect would be minimal compared because the budgets are so big.
“It is a small amount of money in government terms, considering the budget is thousands of millions. And I think it shows Wales in a good light. I think it’s an example of Wales, in a small way, affecting the world positively and being able to say, look, we recognise that we all exist on this planet together and we want to do what we can to help.”
As the interview turned to the wider sector, we’ve seen the Trump Administration in the US eliminate USAID, and in February of this year, Prime Minister Keir Starmer almost halved the overseas aid budget, following a large cut to it in 2019 by the then Prime Minister Boris Johnson. On this most recent cut by a Labour UK Government, Jones said:
“Well, I regret the cut that’s been made.”
But warned against following down this path arguing that the country hasn’t “suddenly haven’t become uncharitable overnight” and still want to help those in need. He also warned the UK Government and Welsh Government against allowing a vocal minority “driving government policy”.
Indeed, the arguments used for cutting overseas aid earlier this year on the grounds of prioritising national defence, Jones argued it was counterproductive and that aid was:
“Without any shadow of a doubt, it is positive in terms of security.”
In addition, that aid could be used as a tool to handle issues surrounding migration and the perilous routes people take to seek safety and prosperity in Wales and the UK.
“I would argue that overseas aid is a way to deal with migration.
“If you’re able to provide people with opportunities, security in the countries where they live, they are far less likely to become migrants.”
With a Senedd election looming next year and the prospect of a new administration leading the Welsh Government on the horizon, Jones offered his support for the Wales and Africa Programme to continue.
“It’s a small amount of money. It delivers well beyond the actual money that’s put in. I’ve seen on the ground the difference it makes to people’s lives.
“If we’re serious about climate change, we’re serious about putting into effect programmes that are going to help people who are affected by climate change, that’s true in Africa as it is in Wales.”
Ending the discussion, the interview looked to the long-term and about Jones’ hopes for the future and the legacy of the Wales and Africa Programme. He offered his support and hoped for its continuation:
“So I think [I want to see] an extension and expansion of what we’re seeing already, people being able to have a livelihood that they otherwise wouldn’t have if it wasn’t for the Wales of Africa programme.”
Notes for editors
This podcast was recorded on Monday 21st of July 2025 at Hayman Media in Newport.
The episode is available to listen here: https://hubcymruafrica.wales/podcast
Click here for a transcript of the interview.
Hub Cymru Africa is a partnership, comprised of the Welsh Centre for International Affairs (WCIA), Fair Trade Wales, Sub-Saharan Advisory Panel and Wales for Africa Health Links Network.
Our work focuses on health, education, livelihoods and the environment. Through awareness-raising, policy and advocacy, community mobilisation and mentoring and development support, we help the voluntary and public sector in Wales to make a contribution to sustainable development goals, through international development
We are funded through grants from the Welsh Government Wales and Africa Programme and the UK Government’s Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office.
We support the diverse and vibrant groups and individuals in Wales – fair trade campaigners, diaspora, NHS staff, community and faith-based organisations, and charities – to contribute to socially responsible global development.
